Conversations with Efficiency NB and various MLAs

Solar Domestic Hot Water and Solar hot water heating for homes and pools
Efficiency NB
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Re: Conversations with Efficiency NB and various MLAs

Postby Efficiency NB » Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:51 pm

Dear Mr. Flecknell:

Further to your e-mail dated June 22, 2011.

Thank you for your comments and suggestion regarding acceptance of CSA 378 certified collectors. I will bring the issue to our management. I’m not sure if you have mentioned what brand of collector you might represent. Is that information that you could send to me?

Joe Waugh
Senior Technical Advisor
Efficiency NB



Conundrum
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Re: Conversations with Efficiency NB and various MLAs

Postby Conundrum » Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:57 pm

Dear Mr. Waugh,

I am an importer for the solar collectors and associated products. I handle 2 brands at present. The first, is // a collector that was certified under the Natural Resources program. Their investment and certification became irrelevant when NRCan decided to hand over their certified collector list to CSA for management. The CSA subsequently demanded additional fees that the manufacturers deemed too high for the potential market. The second company is \\ and it has purchased a CSA certification. Both manufacturers paid out money for their certifications in good faith to meet our demands and thus far we have made their dealings in Canada as difficult and costly as possible.

I intend to distribute these products in New Brunswick and that will create at least a few jobs directly in the Moncton area. This will also have the effect of setting up plumbers, roofers, construction companies and alternative energy companies in Moncton and other cities as potential dealers and increase employment possibilities in their companies as well.

The ideal situation would be the acceptance of the same collectors from the previous rebate programs with no additional strings attached. If restrictions must be applied to cut down on the number of applicants at a later date, do so after the technology at least has a foothold in the province.

Additionally, it would also be a benefit to handle the SDHW systems like the Home Renovation Tax Credit. In this instance, only receipts for the materials are required instead of a full energy audit. I realize the tax credit is handled by a different department all together, but their ideas seemed to work and our economy could use any stimulation it can get.

The cost of the energy audit is also an additional burden and in many cases the 'auditor' has little to no experience with solar hot water systems. As a result, they see insulation or windows as a better option and recommend against the hot water systems citing a high payback time (based on the high cost of the 'F379 certified' collectors).

Please follow up with me on your progress with this matter. Several others are following this discussion and I hope to have positive results so that we can move forward.

-Brooke

Efficiency NB
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Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 12:29 pm

Re: Conversations with Efficiency NB and various MLAs

Postby Efficiency NB » Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:59 pm

Dear Mr. Flecknell:

Further to your e-mail dated July 7, 2011.

Neither of the // or the \\ collectors seem to be listed on the CSA F378-87 (R2004): Solar Collectors list (see attached link). Is it possible that they are listed under a different company names?

http://directories.csa-international.or ... xtKeyword=

Joe Waugh
Senior Technical Advisor
Efficiency NB

Conundrum
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Posts: 352
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Re: Conversations with Efficiency NB and various MLAs

Postby Conundrum » Tue Jul 19, 2011 2:04 pm

Its interesting to note that at some point in the past few emails we have started referring to each other as 'Dear'. I'm not sure if thats a good thing or not. Maybe he is taking a shining to me?

Dear Mr. Waugh,

The // product was listed only under the now defunct NRCan collectors list, however they have now been listed under the CSA list as well. The listed name is "Jiangsu //". As is typical with Chinese companies, they list the province of incorporation in their company name. The \\ collector is listed as "Jiangsu \\ Co. ".

For your reference, the list is at this link:
http://www.csagateway.com/irj/servlet/p ... -mode=true

Also for your reference I have found a Canadian company that has gone through the hassle to be listed and I think it is worthwhile to read their posting here: http://latitude51solar.blogspot.com/201 ... roved.html

To summarize their post, and to further strengthen my position on CSA certification in general I must first admit that
I was wrong. It seems that my classification of F378 and F379 as a certification was a misnomer. The list is simply another way to extract money from companies wishing to participate in rebate programs. Actual certification is yet another cost on to of the listing fees. There are several 'lists' which all cost money to be part of and they are being driven by large companies like Viessmann and Enerworks.

-Brooke

Efficiency NB
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 12:29 pm

Re: Conversations with Efficiency NB and various MLAs

Postby Efficiency NB » Tue Jul 19, 2011 2:07 pm

Dear Mr. Flecknell,

Thank you for more detail on the collectors that you represent. I see that the Jiangsu \\ Co Ltd collector is listed on the CSA F378-87 (R2004): Solar Collectors list which is a good start.

Joe Waugh
Senior Technical Advisor
Efficiency NB

Conundrum
Site Admin
Posts: 352
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 5:43 pm

Re: Conversations with Efficiency NB and various MLAs

Postby Conundrum » Tue Jul 19, 2011 2:12 pm

Dear Mr. Waugh,

So I guess the next questions are, where do we go from here and how do we get there? Is there something more I can do to see that the appropriate changes are made? What time line can we expect for a change in the requirements?

-Brooke

Efficiency NB
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 12:29 pm

Re: Conversations with Efficiency NB and various MLAs

Postby Efficiency NB » Fri Aug 12, 2011 4:37 pm

Dear Mr. Flecknell,

Last month the federal government reintroduced the ecoENERGY Retrofit program for existing houses and apartment buildings. Solar domestic hot water systems are included in the ecoENERGY grant table as eligible for an incentive. The federal program grant table states:

Efficiency NB’s incentives for existing buildings also requires CAN/CSA F379 certification which matches the requirement of the federal program.

Joe Waugh

Senior Technical Advisor

Efficiency NB

Conundrum
Site Admin
Posts: 352
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Re: Conversations with Efficiency NB and various MLAs

Postby Conundrum » Fri Aug 12, 2011 4:41 pm

Dear Mr. Waugh,

As I have explained many times, the requirement for the F379 certification is what I am trying to change. The conversation at this point has gone from explaining why the policy needs to change to going back to blandly stating the current policy requirement.

If we are truly our own province and Efficiency NB is more that just an extension of the federal program, you should have control over this requirement. It doesn't matter that your requirement matches the federal one. As my mother once said, if your friends jumped off a bridge, would that mean you have to as well? The requirement is ineffective at doing anything but promoting over priced hardware and denying the citizens of a meaningful incentive to invest in efficient products. We have the ability to think for ourselves here in New Brunswick. So I need to ask again, how do I go about having this requirement changed? If you are unwilling or unable to change the policy, please tell me who is so that I can contact them.

Incidentally, I will also be working on the federal requirement as well, but that is a conversation for the federal program administrators.

-Brooke

Efficiency NB
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 12:29 pm

Re: Conversations with Efficiency NB and various MLAs

Postby Efficiency NB » Fri Aug 12, 2011 4:42 pm

I will be on vacation until August 15th. Please direct inquiries to Hector Doiron for new home questions Hector.Doiron@gnb.ca 506 866-0551 and Mike Brun for existing home questions Mike.Brun@gnb.ca

Conundrum
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Re: Conversations with Efficiency NB and various MLAs

Postby Conundrum » Fri Aug 12, 2011 4:43 pm

I suppose this is where I should encourage those of you reading this ongoing saga to use the addresses provided and ask why this absurd CSA requirement exists. Feel free to post the results if you do get a reply.


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